Is the Canon EOS R the Perfect B Camera for C200 Shooters?

March 20th, 2019
Is the Canon EOS R the Perfect B Camera for C200 Shooters?

The Canon EOS R is available since October 2018, and while it is a solid, lightweight full-frame camera, the least that we can say is that public opinions are not unanimous about Canon’s RF new flagship camera. On a recent shoot, I had the opportunity to use it as a B camera along with a Canon C200. Here are my thoughts about it.

Let me start by saying that this is not a comprehensive review of the video capabilities of the camera, but rather my personal impressions from a particular experience on a shoot. To read our EOS R review, click here!

Blam’S – Donne Moi Tout / You can look out Canon EOS R shots during the bar scene (when the camera is attached to the artist). Also, the entire scene where he is laying on the ground (1:58 to 2:13) was shot using the EOS R on a Kessler Crane Pocket Jib Traveler.

Disclaimer: Let me first say that I am not a Canon Ambassador. Like every other article on cinema5D, Canon or any other brand did not pay me to write this article. I rent the camera body with my own money, and this is my unbiased opinion. Also, this article is not a camera review, but just my findings on the camera when using it on a real-life job.

CanonEOSRC200_01

Canon EOS R Features

The Canon EOS R is probably one of the most commented cameras of 2018. The recently announced Canon EOS RP is following the same path, but it’s another topic.
The reason why so many people hate on the Canon EOS R is that – on paper – the camera falls a little bit short when it comes to video recording capabilities. While reading the specs sheet, this is something I understand, as I was a bit disappointed too.

Here are the main features of the Canon EOS R:

  • 30.3 megapixels Full-Frame sensor.
  • New Canon RF lens mount. EOS R Adapters available to mount EF and EF-S lenses.
  • Only one SD slot UHS-II compatible.
  • Video recording capabilities: UHD 4K 4:2:0 8bit at up to 25/30p (max 29min 59sec) MP4 with a 1.8X sensor crop in 4K / Full HD 1080p up to 50/60p, HD 720p up to 100/120p.
  • Uncompressed 10bit UHD 4K via HDMI.
  • Canon Log included.
  • Dual Pixel CMOS AF.

So for a 2018 camera – when comparing it to a Panasonic GH5 or Sony a7 III -, these are not impressive features. Also, the $2,299 price tag (body only) didn’t help. However, how does it perform in real life?

CanonEOSRC200_02

The Canon EOS R on the Kessler Crane Pocket Jib Traveler with a Canon EF 24mm F1.4L

Real World Test

In January 2019, I had the opportunity to direct and shoot a music video for French artist Blam’S. I already made five music videos for him in the past. Back in the days, we started with low-budget indy music videos that did pretty well on YouTube. Recently Blam’S got signed in a music label, so we got a little more budget than usual to make this music video happen.

For this shoot, I decided to go with the Canon C200. It is an incredible camera with RAW capabilities, a very “Arri Alexa” type of image/colors, and some pretty decent low light capabilities. Also, the budget was too tight to hire a 1st AC, so the Canon EF lenses combined with the fantastic Canon’s Dual Pixel AF were a no brainer. We only had one day to shoot this music video and needed to move quickly between shots, as our crew was limited. The Canon C200 was the perfect fit for this music video.

CanonEOSRC200_03

Photo: Julien Strai

While writing the initial treatment for this music video, I knew some of the shots we planned were a little bit tricky. For example, some of the shots required the camera to be attached to the artist. I decided to use a Snorrycam for these shots and did some test with the Canon C200. It was too optimistic, and I ruined my back doing a 2 minutes test. We needed something lighter.

I initially thought about using my Panasonic GH5 as a B camera for these shots. The GH5 is a great Micro Four Thirds camera, but I was a bit afraid it wouldn’t match the Canon C200 C-Log footages – even with an extensive color grading. At the same time, a local rental house got a Canon EOS R, so I thought it would be a good time to test it.

The perfect C200 B-Camera?

For the Canon EOS R shots, I decided to go as compact as possible: the camera, an RF-EF lens adapter, and a lens. No external recorder, so all EOS R shots are shot in 4K UHD 25p 4:2:0 8bit. I set the camera to record in Canon Log.

Working with the Canon EOS R is a real pleasure. The battery life is decent, the swivel touchscreen is a nice addition, and the camera menus are straightforward. Also, I am surprised the Dual Pixel AF works flawlessly even with EF lenses – I thought it would struggle a bit like a Metabones adapter for example.

The real selling point for me is how close the Canon EOS R’s C-Log image matches with the Canon C200. If you use the provided Canon C-Log to WideDR or Rec.709 LUT, the footages are nearly identical. In my findings, the Canon EOS R image is slightly more magenta, so I merely added a bit of green in post-production. And that’s it.

CanonEOSRC200_04

Photo: Julien Strai

After using it, I find that all of the critics regarding the EOS R are a little bit rude. When recording video in 4K mode, the 1.8x sensor crop was not something I was limited by. The 12 stops of dynamic range – in a controlled environment – are enough for me. Unfortunately, I can’t speak about daylight scenes, as I did not test it. The overall image is pleasing with little to no work.

The music label loved the final music video and was astonished by the global picture quality. The fun fact is that the scene where the artist is laying on the ground is the one that the music label liked the most. And it was shot using a “pretty cheap” 4:2:0 8bit camera.

In the end, if you are a Canon C200 shooter, should you buy a Canon EOS R as a B camera? If you don’t own any other camera body, the short answer is probably yes. For gimbal shots, the Canon EOS R on a DJI Ronin-S, for example, is a time (and arms) saver.
If like me, you have another DSLR/mirrorless camera as a B camera, I would probably wait. With some work, it’s always possible to make any footages color-match the Canon C200.

The Canon EOS R ecosystem is pretty new. The RF to EF adapter with built-in variable ND filter is one of these things that change the way you use a camera. I have no doubt some new RF lenses and accessories will come pretty soon. Let’s look at the Canon EOS R as a first step.

Did you already shoot with the Canon EOS R? What are your thoughts about it? Let us know in the comments down below!

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Mutterfly
Guest
May 10th, 2019

Amazing article. It covers every aspect of the product along with its features. Thank you for sharing!

Cheers,
Team Mutterfly.
https://mutterfly.in/

Nora Allen
Guest
April 30th, 2019

Great post.I’m impressed!

 roger nelson
roger nelson
Member
April 27th, 2019

skin tones too damn magenta. which sickens me since almost everything else is right

Ricardo
Ricardo
Guest
April 20th, 2019

Canon’s XC15 or XC10 are perfect B cameras for either the C200 or the C300. The price of the XC10 has come down recently and makes it a good value camera.

Ricardo
Ricardo
Guest
April 20th, 2019

Canon’s XC15 or XC10 are perfect B cameras for either the C300 or the C200. The XC10’s
price has come down a lot recently and makes it a good value camera.

Wes Anthony
Guest
March 23rd, 2019

“No”.

There.

Ari Kirschenbaum
Ari Kirschenbaum
Guest
March 22nd, 2019

Has anyone seen the videos (Potato Jet and others) where EOSR’s 4k doesn’t look any better than upscaled HD.

Marek
Marek
Guest
March 22nd, 2019

No I will pass… and I am waiting about 10 years now for decent 4k DSLR from Canon.

Steve V4D
Guest
March 21st, 2019

If I was running the C200 or C300, I would consider the EOS R or the Mark IV as a smaller B or C camera. Despite the limitations and there are a few!! Its a lot easier matching colour between the same make.
I was amused to read the idea that critics of the EOS R were being “rude”. That comment did elicit a giggle. Rude, in what way. Are the EOS R’s feelings being hurt from our ignoring it. Is commenting on rolling shutter, cropped 4K a case of rudeness. Seriously!!
I’ve bitched about Panasonics AF, Sonys colours and Blackmagics delivery of goods too. Gosh, how rude of me! ;)

Steve V4D
Guest
March 22nd, 2019
Reply to  Jeff Loch

It’s perfectly legitimate to judge a camera by specs. That’s not so say it tells a complete picture; I’ve had several cases of good spec cameras disappointing me and vice versa. Yet when a camera is announced, specs offer more content than just a cover. Features like focus, colour science, stabilisation, how long it can record continuously, frame rates and resolution will often be a key factor in whether a camera can match your needs of not. My needs will differ from someone elses, so what is an important feature for me, may not be for someone else. So my views on say Sony cameras are my own. Same with Canon.
I feel that Canon gets above it’s fair share of bashing. Expectations for this popular brand to produce a mirrorless/DSLR with all the specs of the GH5 is asking too much, but asking for it, a number of videographers are. Personally I’m not a Canon fan myself, but with the C200 and C300 being popular choices, some are still waiting for Canon to deliver an uncrippled smaller camera to pair with their cinema line. I think such a camera has yet to fully appear, though the EOS R is a step in the right direction.

Guy McLoughlin
Guy McLoughlin
Guest
March 22nd, 2019
Reply to  Steve V4D

>>> Expectations for this popular brand to produce a mirrorless/DSLR with all the specs of the GH5 is asking too much, but asking for it, a number of videographers are.

The Panasonic S1 is starting to ship this week, and with the paid video-upgrade that’s coming (announcement April 7th? ) it should deliver on the dream of a GH5/GH5s Full Frame camera. And price wise it’s not a lot more than the cost of a EOS R.

Steve V4D
Guest
March 22nd, 2019
Reply to  Guy McLoughlin

And yet the S1r has faced criticism for not being the full frame GH5 many hoped for. I think it’s a good step but it’s still too photo focused despite the promised upgrade.
That said, expectations that Canon would deliver a similar or dare I say better video features on their mirroless system is still as I said before, too much to ask. :)

Guy McLoughlin
Guy McLoughlin
Guest
March 23rd, 2019
Reply to  Steve V4D

The 47 Mpx S1R was never intended to be a FF GH5, it’s the 24 Mpx S1 camera that will be a FF combination of the GH5/GH5s.

With the paid video upgrade the Panasonic S1 camera should have the following features…

– Full sensor 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 recording (no-crop) in all formats except 4K 60p

– Unlimited recording time in all formats except 4K 60p

– 5-axis IBIS and DUAL IS stabilization ( 6 F-stops )

– Dual memory cards, that enable relay-recording and duplicate recording

– 13+ F-stops of dynamic range

– Full range LOG recording ( not limited like V-LOG L )

– The same data-rates as the GH5, expect no 400 Mbps ALL-I

– Excellent low-light performance, that appears to be better than the GH5s at the same F-stop

…Currently it looks like the details of the S1 paid video upgrade will be announced on April 7th at NAB 2019.

Steve V4D
Guest
March 23rd, 2019
Reply to  Guy McLoughlin

I meant the S1. Getting confused between the 2.
The S1 has some impressive features, and benefits from being fullframe with better ISO and full vLog, but it’s not quite the fullframe GH5 and GH5s. No DCI 4K, no flip screen, a few missing features, cropped 60p with limited recording. I do wonder if a more video focused S1, like a S1s, similar to the GH5s, will be on the cards. Much as Sony has done, with their a7, a7r and a7s. Perhaps with a lower pixel count as per the GH5s.
The S1 is still being targeted more for Photographers with the paid upgrade addressing that balance, but whilst the vLog and 10 bit codec is welcome, it doesn’t quite include all of the things I like about the GH5, or even the GH5s, and it hasn’t addressed some of the things missing or weaknesses in the GH5 either and which a potential GH6 may bring.

Guy McLoughlin
Guy McLoughlin
Guest
March 24th, 2019
Reply to  Steve V4D

If DCI 4K is key to your work then most DSLR/Mirrorless cameras are not going to work for you. (there are a few exceptions)

A flip screen is handy, but it would never prevent me from shooting with a camera.

Cropped 4K 60p is a processing power issue, so I don’t know if this is going to be solved until Panasonic chip tech takes another leap forward. ( same goes for 4K 10-bit 60p recording )

Of all the FF DSLR/Mirrorless hybrid on the market right now, the S1 with the paid video upgrade looks like it’s going to be king of the hill until somebody dethrones it. (Sony it’s been 3.5 years and no A7SIII. What is taking so long?)

I really doubt that Panasonic will make a dedicated video S1 camera any time soon, because Panasonic is in it to make money, and a specialized S1 video camera is bound to be a money loser because of the limited sales and the high cost. Sure it would be great to have, but am I ready to spend $5K+ for a S1 video body? (my answer today is a definite no)

I am expecting to see a GH6 next year with 4K 10-bit 60p internal recording and 13+ F-stops of dynamic range, and maybe better low-light performance.

And I’m also expecting to pay more than the GH5s costs for the GH6 body. Depending on how the S1 with the video upgrade shakes out, I don’t know if I will upgrade my GH5 cameras right away.

Steve V4D
Guest
March 25th, 2019
Reply to  Guy McLoughlin

I own the GH4r, GH5, GH5s and Pocket 4K. All can do DCI 4K. The latter 2 can offer it in 25p. Uncropped FF 4K in 60p is available in the S1r. Albeit with line skipping rather than downsizing, but we await tests to see the difference.
I agree the S1 is taking a top position in FF Mirrorless/DSLR, but video work is more than FF. In fact, APS-C is more the norm for larger cinema cameras and for good reason. It balances low light with functionality.
I’m convinced a S1s is due at some point. I’m sure some felt a GH5s was unlikely so soon after the GH5, but it arrived all the same. You make some wild assumptions about the cost of the GH6, but I don’t think it’ll cost more than the GH5s. There’ll be a GH6s for that. A non IBIS version is essential for larger Production studios who don’t want it in their cameras. And their demand for such a smaller sensor camera will warrant it.
Frankly the S1 is a first tentative step into FF for Panasonic, but one they’ll try to build on. Early adopters can enjoy its benefits, but it lacks too much and offers little that’s really new aside from better low light and minor improvements in IBIS and focus for me to invest; when I feel considerably better is around the corner.
That said, I may no more buy it than you. My next purchase is the new URSA 4.6k. I’ve played enough with these small hybrid cameras. I need dedicated video, not photo with video on the side.

Sally
Sally
Guest
March 21st, 2019

Like I said Johnnie, the content makes me laugh everyday. I was agreeing with the other person in the thread. And as you say, while the customer may have been happy, the music clip does not paint a wonderful picture of the cameras capabilities.

I viewed this camera in a store just yesterday against the xt3 for half the price. You would have to be silly to by an eos r instead of an xt3. I’m no fan girl of either, but the pictures are good comptable. The specs and price not so much.

Admin
March 21st, 2019
Reply to  Sally

Sally, good to know we can agree that the X-T3 is a wonderful camera.

Brendan Ringer
Guest
March 21st, 2019

We use the EOS R as a b camera for our C200 and like it a lot! Plus it’s helpful to have on hand as a stills camera and an easy grab and go camera.

Chris Reynolds
Guest
March 21st, 2019

This site is getting worse than No Film School…….

Mike D
Mike D
Guest
March 21st, 2019

Funny how NAB is just around the corner and suddenly all the major you tubers in this space are now pushing and vlogging about this camera hard. It’s no surprise this site has followed suit. This is a fluff piece.

This article is probably more about getting views on a poorly shot, badly written zero concept music video.

Canon has made this camera like an apple computer – leveraging camera limitations and price against people stuck in their ecosystem – ie shooters who have invested heavily in Canon glass.

Admin
March 21st, 2019
Reply to  Mike D

I love keyboard heroes. How about sharing something useful with our filming community instead of bitching around?

Thank you
Johnnie

Sally
Sally
Guest
March 21st, 2019
Reply to  Johnnie Behiri

What’s your choice in life Johnnie?
I come to this site as my daily source of tech comedy. The music video is terrible.

Admin
March 21st, 2019
Reply to  Sally

First and most important, thank you Sally for visiting our site! Now, in regards to the music video, I guess it is a matter of personal taste. (If the customer was happy, I guess Jeff did a good job). Anyway, the topic of this article is not the music video per say, but rather Jeff’s experience in combining the 2 Canon cameras.

Oh, and my choice in life? ….:) (Thank you for watching the videos too)!

Joshua Valdez
Guest
March 21st, 2019

The C200B already exists

Jonathan
Guest
March 20th, 2019

Yes! Used it all day today with the C200 – sync up the WB, shoot in C-LOG on both units and get on with it! rolling shutter is awful, so use something else for movement shots.

baubergo
baubergo
Guest
March 20th, 2019

Where do I get these provided Log´s?

baubergo
baubergo
Guest
March 22nd, 2019
Reply to  baubergo

No one? What a shame :( I cant found the canon provided luts

Arjun Ajith
Guest
March 20th, 2019

The best method put that C200 in the basket and buy 2 GH5S shoot the work put some money in your bank also.. eos r and c200 what a comedy.. dear cinema 5d pls understand Dual Pixel AF = Quality Loss.. so pls post thinks about some other good cameras.

Steve Oakley
Guest
March 20th, 2019

XT3. as a 30 year canon owner / user, the R just didn’t cut it for all the various reasons. I’ve graded GH4/5 and canon C series shots together just fine if you got / set matching WB. Panasonic / Canon are easy to mix and match. XT3 isn’t hard either and is an incredible B cam.

 Dan Brockett
Member
March 20th, 2019
Reply to  Steve Oakley

C200 owner here. Looked at the EOS R, the camera I was expected to buy as a Canon owner. Rented one and tried it. Was not impressed with it, bad rolling shutter, like 5D MKII bad or possibly worse. DPAF was good, color science, of course was good. But no DCI, no 120FPS FHD, 720p only, no H.265, 1.8 crop versus APS-C 1.5X

Then rented the X-T3. Better built (more metal, less plastic), smaller and lighter. I like the images better. The film sims are really useful for projects where we don’t edit the footage.

Ended up buying the X-T3.

 Dan Brockett
Member
March 21st, 2019
Reply to  Jeff Loch

The clincher for me was the X-T3 was $1,000.00 less. If the prices were reversed, then I would have bought the Canon. I think a lot of buyers overlook the value equation, which for me is paramount, “Is this piece of gear a good value for me to spend my hard earned money on?”

The EOS R was so feature crippled and missing so many things at almost double the price. As far as video, it’s not a FF camera either. I met with some Canon people the other day and these were a few of the things I mentioned, Canon could make a killer FF mirrorless, but so far, they don’t.

Jeff Loch
Jeff Loch
Guest
March 21st, 2019
Reply to  Dan Brockett

I agree with you, Dan. The X-T3 is a fantastic bang for your bucks. Also, I did not end up buying an EOS R myself, but it’s pretty cheap to rent and does an excellent job. If you already have another B camera, I guess the switch to an EOS R is not a no-brainer. But I’m curious about what’s coming next, after the RP.

Jay M
Jay M
Guest
March 20th, 2019

I think the bits of information that would’ve been important to me before purchasing are:

1. In my opinion the dual pixel autofocus is way more twitchy than the Mark IV in anything but optimal light conditions (this shocked me in a bad way so much so that i don’t even use it on my ronin if i need to rely on autofocus.) Where as the Mark IV’s movie servo AF can be adjusted in the menu, so that missed focus attempts smoothly blur in and out until it locks focus again. The eos R has removed this ability. Leading to alot of rapid focus adjustments that are anything but cinematic (specifically referring to the face tracking focus mode)

2. If you are recording to an external recorder in 1080P resolution, the output signal is locked to 60fps. The only other solution is to switch to the true 24p option in the settings which will than output a 24p signal to your recorder. NO 29.97fps OPTION AVAILABLE FOR 1080P TO AN THERE IS NO EXTERNAL RECORDER!!!. Let me repeat this, the HDMI frame rate option has been removed from the eos R! Normally you would choose 59.94i in the camera settings and select pulldown on the recorder in order to get 23.94p & 29.97p options. The only 29.97p option available to an external recorder is in 4k and of course then you have to deal with the 1.8x crop!

Also as someone who has learned how to manage the MJPEG format perfectly i am sad to see it removed in the eos R. Now i have to attach a recorder onto what should’ve been a smaller camera, in order to get back to a 4:2:2 colorspace in a better container. Oh and the rolling shutter seems worse than the Mark IV. Welp thats it for my rant. Im even considering trading in the R for another Mark IV with C-log. Oh and they removed DCI 4K lol. Ok now im done.

Michel De Heer
Guest
March 20th, 2019

Only good B camera for the C200 is another C200 ??

BOUNCE
Member
March 20th, 2019

We have tried matching the GH5 and S, Nikon Z6, Fuji X-T3, 1DXMk2 and EOS R with the C200. Of all of those cameras, the most straight forward to match is the EOS R, by a considerable margin. I think too many people judge this camera just by the spec sheet. On paper it is inferior to all of its mirrorless contemporaries. But in practice, I find it to produce a more filmic and organic image than all of the others that I have tested. In use it is ergonomically well thought out. The menus are quick to navigate and the camera is very customizable. Most importantly, it works reliably. If you value a good image above all else, it’s an easy choice.

Jeremy Woods
Guest
March 20th, 2019

If you’re a sadist, then well yeah.

Daniel Lindegren
Guest
March 20th, 2019

I guess just as perfect as the 5div.

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