Sony F55 & Canon 1DC – 4K side by side

Sony PMW-F55cinema5D had a chance to test the new Sony F55, Sony’s new flagship 4K cinema camera. As a reference we used Canon’s most advanced HDSLR.

The F55 is an interesting camera, because it is one that ticks more boxes than any other camera over the past few years – the range of resolutions, frame rates, codecs as well as the ergonomics are unprecedented. Now it’s down to actually using it to make a judgement call.

We wanted to know how the camera performs in a normal sooting environment and took the Canon EOS 1DC 4K HDSLR with us for comparison. Some interesting conclusions can be drawn here, things you might consider if you plan on shooting with either of these cameras or would just like to see what to expect.

You can download (1GB) and watch the source video in 4K on vimeo: LINK

Canon EOS 1DCDisclaimer: Please note that this is not a scientific test. We share our subjective opinion and try to give you all the insights we have. Always try before you buy.

Aside from the sooting experience itself (more on that later) most significant to us is the footage a camera produces.
During our grading session in a professional post house some of the differences between these two cameras became more clear.

Here’s a summary of what we found:

Sony F55 (Slog2, ISO 1250)
XAVC codec = about 1h footage on 128GB, 4:2:2, 4K, mpeg-4/h.264, 10-bit
– very fine, high resolution
– very clean image
– lots of detail and little noise in dark areas
– very sharp, needed to be softened.
– rescuable: about 2.5 stops over-exposure, 4 stops under (more detailed review on that next week)

Canon 1DC (C-Log, ISO 800)
MJPEG codec = about 30 minutes on 128GB, 4:2:2, mjpeg, 8-bit
– not as high resolution feel as F55
– no detail in dark areas (Canon cuts of blacks entirely), so no noise at all in blacks
– softer image than F55, needed to be sharpened a little.
– rescuable: about 2.5 stop over-exposure, 5 stops under.

Grading at VFXBoth cameras could be matched easily in post production. Contrary to our expectations the Canon 1DC could be underexposed even more than the F55 (talking usable dynamic range). On the other hand the noise and 10-bit image of the F55 is obviously more clean and stable due to its powerful new xavc codec.

The Canon still delivers very gradable and easy to use files (According to our experienced colorist: More usable than C300 footage). The 1DC can indeed deliver a fine and filmic end-result that can be tweaked around in the process. I should also mentioned that grading the F55 seems a little more time intensive as the existing LUT’s don’t develop it so well and the xavc codec is not so established yet.

Note that the same lenses were used on both cameras (except for the last shot).

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Guest
June 27th, 2013

Wonderful article! This is the type of information that should be shared across
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Kostas Metaxas
Guest
April 30th, 2013

Hi Guys,
Chalk n cheese for me…Sony looks like video, canon looks like cinema. The canon “draws” you into the scene. Amazing that only 5 short years ago, we probably wouldn’t have even imagined how far things COULD have come in Digital Cinema.
rgds
Kostas

Am
Guest
May 1st, 2013
Reply to  Kostas Metaxas

Sony is sharper in every shot. If your definition of “cinema” is soft images, then you can soften the Sony images, but you can’t sharpen the soft Canon images without introducing artifacts.

Alexey
Alexey
Guest
April 9th, 2013
Augusto Alves da Silva
Augusto Alves da Silva
Guest
April 7th, 2013

Hi…just my opinion about this. I have been for the last 5 years shooting with Canon, Sony, Panasonic, iphone….whatever I needed to take the look I needed. I will not go to the desert with a Ferrari or to a race track with a Jeep…to me it doesn´t make sense. I value portability and he camera movements to worry about 10 or 15% more resolution just for showing off sake. If I don´t really need an Alexa I don´t use it…if I have a lot of handheld high motion shots, I don´t use it…if I have to carry the camera on my shoulder fully rigged I don´t use it. To me the narrative is 80% of the final result. I have seen recently a multi national company huge advert campaign shot on an iphone!!! Why? Because that was probably the concept. Now going straight to the point. Would I use an F-55? Of course. A 1DC? Of course (I do use it now). Is the Sony better then the Canon? I don´t know. What do I have to shoot with it? The tool has to be chosen. This is not (IMHO) a “standard choice”. A few years back I was shootin a commercial with a videocam. The agency when they went to see the final product said- Nice…you shot 35mm. I said sorry this is video. And it was…I just telecined on a Rnak Cintel the whole video footage… ;-) . And that was why I won the campaign and shot a few more commercials with them. That is why this discussion is a little bit pointless. Every camera has its weak and strong points…there isn´t a universal camera. Canon is soft? Of course…even my GH3 is much sharper…and so what? I will keep using what I think it is working for me while manufacturers keep releasing their products. As long as my clients are happy I will stay in business…

Thank you

Pat McGowan
Guest
March 30th, 2013

I would love to see a head to head F5 vs. 1DC shootout here maybe throw in a C500 for a 3 way. I think that would be the more relavent test. An while you’re at it why not do a F55 vs. Alexa test or even throw in an Epic for a 3 way? It’s all about the end game and that is the final images no?

SSVHD
Guest
March 19th, 2013

Wow! The 4K download really shows how soft the 1DC is compared to the F55. Kind of like the difference between a C300 and 5D2.

SSVHD
Guest
March 17th, 2013

Ricky, agreed, most movies shot digitally are shot with Epic and Alexa. We don’t know how the F55 will be accepted. We do know that DSLR’s are not used as A cameras for movies, other than very low budget, indie projects. Maybe the 1DC will be the exception, but I’m skeptical.

SSVHD
Guest
March 17th, 2013

Sebastian, I own a camera rental house, with inventory that includes Canon C300 PL, Panasonic HPX2700 P2 Varicam, HPX250, Sony, EX1 and HXC-100K, and am a working DP, so I’m aware after 30 years of shooting and owning cameras, that there is no perfect camera. However, what I’ve seen in the last few years is many DP’s and producers who own a DSLR, somehow think it’s the best camera ever made and perfect for every project.

I see any DSLR, including the 1DC, as being a limited, specialty camera. An 8-bit 4K, non-RAW camera is not going to offer the flexibility of a camera that can record RAW with 14 stops of DR, 16 bit depth, incredible control of every image parameter in-camera. Put another way, when a working DP has the budget to use an Alexa or Epic or F55, would he/she chose a 1DC as an A camera for normal narrative work? Any professional colorist I know would rather work with Alexa, EPIC, and soon F55 footage.

I agree about Canon skin tones, and prefer them to Sony, as I also prefer Panasonic colorimetry to Sony. But a camera like the F55 can be made to look like whatever is wanted in the right hands. I also agree that the Alexa has intangible qualities that the F55 might not posses.

I really like shooting with the C300 PL, but I see any 8-bit camera as more of a broadcast, short turnaround tool, not a cine oriented camera. As for the 1DC, I’m not a fan of full frame 35 when wide open for narrative with exceptions and I don’t think modern stills lenses with little manual control and very limited focus rotation are the best tool for narrative.

Canon 1DC as a B-camera? Absolutely. By the way, I’ve never met a working DP yet who doesn’t appreciate having the most latitude/dynamic range possible, and detail in the shadows is normally associated with DR.

Burt
Burt
Guest
March 18th, 2013
Reply to  SSVHD

@SSVHD,

I totally agree what you are saying here as much as I agree with Jerrod Dole above. However the name AND attitude around this site is ‘Cinema5D’ so naturally there is a bias in favor of DSLR form factor – most notably of the Canon variety.

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 18th, 2013
Reply to  Burt

SSVHD,
I also agree with what you’re saying and I’m not a fan of shooting full frame either as I rarely ever need the shallow depth and have to work against it.
However I think it’s remarkable to see a DSLR deliver these kinds of images that make it a very capable B camera and a very competitive tool in the low budget area. Many commercials are shot on DSLR (at least in Europe) and if the right people use it you can hardly tell it apart from a more capable camera. The form factor certainly is another plus.
Again, I agree with your points and just think the camera shouldn’t be dismissed too easily.
And @Burt concerning our name, cinema5D comes from the time when a DSLR made a difference in film world. I don’t see how our name makes us biased other than your interpretations. We’re not biased, not towards HDSLR and not towards a manufacturer. I was the first to call DSLR’s dead and it seems I was wrong.

burt
burt
Guest
March 18th, 2013

Sebastian

Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it. But I must counter your claim of not being biased. Then why not have equal amount of coverage about Nikon D800, Panasonic GH2, Black Magic CM, RED, etc…?

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 18th, 2013
Reply to  burt

We have coverage on FS700, NEX-6, had the first EA50 footage and did an additional review, Sony A99, Sony HX9V, 3 videos on D4 and some stuff on Scarlet. The D800 and GH3 have been covered sufficiently by others (Dave did a nice D800 review: http://www.cined.com/news/?p=11652) and we are personally not overly interested in these cameras anymore to make another review, but we might get a Blackmagic MFT soon, will have a review on the new Leica in the next days, just finishing editing the footage. Also we will have something very nice we did with the F55 which we will post in the next days, with some slomo stuff and proper lighting which might be more suitable for the kind of stuff you’re interested in doing.

SSVHD
Guest
March 18th, 2013

Sebastian, yes, the 1DC is intriguing on many levels. I prefer a normal video camera form factor and PL-mount for narrative, but see many uses for the 1DC. Of course, there are proper Cine lenses with EF mount, albeit not the best possible glass(no Angenieux, Fujinon EC, Zeiss Master or Ultra Primes, Cooke, etc.). Not crazy about the rigidity of EF mount, certainly needs support for heavier lenses, although the C500 EF mount looks pretty strong.

Ricky
Ricky
Guest
March 17th, 2013

thanks SSVHD and Sebastian for the explanation.
I understand, but in this test Epic had module Meizler connected. Be fantastic ProRes HQ and 5k Raw simultaneous ,video wifi, etc etc all controlled with iPad. It ‘s true cost much but Sony does not have this or am I wrong?
I extract Redmag and put this in macbook, make a look with REDCINE-x , for example Day for Night , extract and put in camera , this amazed me, without changing the original file .. Fantastic!.
So please explain why almost all movies are shot with Epic and Alexa, I do not think that cinema have money problems! in this field we are the best DP and no one wants to make a bad impression.
For now I hang onto my Sony ex1, wait Nab …
Being just my thoughts ….
thanks

SSVHD
Guest
March 16th, 2013

Ricky, agree about producers wanting to shoot on Alexa and RED Epic, but the F55 is new, so will take some time to get traction.

Regarding colorimetry, F55 has several scene files to choose from and user matrix and multi-matrix, plus wide gamut color like the F65, so this should be a non-issue. A 16-bit RAW format should allow for plenty of grading and color correction.

The F55 does a whole lot of recording formats, plus has much more in the way of menu handles than an Epic, things like shading and flare and a paint box option. It can work as a broadcast camera or a cine camera, whereas I wouldn’t want to use any RED model for the former. Or even an Alexa, for that matter.

It records 1080, 2K, 4K, compressed, RAW, simultaneous 1080 proxy and 4K, 10-bit, 16-bit, no windowing of the sensor for high speed frame rates.

Right now, F5 and F55 are the latitude, sensitivity and signal to noise champions. This will change of course, but at the F5’s price point, that’s no mean feat.

RED Dragon will offer a lot, most likely, when it ships as will Arri’s 4K camera, but right now you can’t shoot with them.

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 17th, 2013
Reply to  SSVHD

I would like to add that you might achieve things with the F55 or Dragon sensor that are technically new and “better” than we’ve seen before, but what filmmakers require is a lot more than a camera that is cool in one regard, it has to fulfill many needs and you will quickly realize if a camera works as a whole if you start shooting with it. People like to comment and talk about specs, but will sometimes come to an entirely different conclusion when they have felt the tool and results in a production.

Ricky
Ricky
Guest
March 16th, 2013

I saw yesterday here in LA the F55, to be honest that be a bad copy of Alexa and Red Epic. For what little I have seen on a TV85 sony 4k UHdtv the F55 have pastel colors, I do not like. It ‘s true have less noise Alexa and Epic over 1000 ISO, but then again I do not like the colors. For the dynamic range I do not know, I saw the three cameras exposed correctly and honestly hard to say. I believe that the NAb this year there will be news from both Arri and Red. The film chooses RED and ALEXA. Arri code and Redcode Raw. Even now in this moment I would not choose Sony. My Ex1 still works fine, but as seen as the next camera choose to be a Epic Dragon, photo at 6k whit plugin in photoshop very nice, timelaps whit noise reduction built-in camera :)) wonderfull :)) and possible 2 video tracks with Hdrx, frame rates from 1 to 400 fps and time base from 24 to 60 fps, from 1k to 6k resolution, small body, canon / nikon mount all possible, now edit in final cut 10 and Adobe premiere cs6 whit my macbook;) , why should I choose Sony?

SSVHD
Guest
March 16th, 2013

Trying to correlate these two statements:

“- no detail in dark areas (Canon cuts of blacks entirely), so no noise at all in blacks”

“Contrary to our expectations the Canon 1DC could be underexposed even more than the F55 (talking usable dynamic range).”

How does “no detail in dark areas” provide more underexposure range? Seems to me a lack of detail in the blacks and mid-blacks points to a camera with low dynamic range.

On the other hand, according to DP Geoff Boyle of CML, in tests he did recently with several cameras, the F55 came out on top of the Alexa for resolution, low noise and dynamic range. The is a 14 + stop camera, so that would mean the Canon 1DC has more latitude than the F55 and Alexa? And at 8-bit depth?

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 17th, 2013
Reply to  SSVHD

Hi SSVHD,
Many people seem to comment praising some of the F55’s attributes like low noise, high dynamic range etc. which we haven’t overly concentrated our test on. That is fine, it has those attributes, but the purpose most people use a camera like this is not to count its pixels or scientific noise results, but they want to make a film or other media with it! In that regard it is my opinion the camera is not as powerful as it seems. While you can see details in highlights and shadows (high dynamic range) that you might not be able to see with other cameras, what I’m interested in is how the skin looks when I underexpose the material, so how well the colors are still reproduced. This is where the 1DC seemed stronger to us than the F55. And low noise can be nice to some but to be honest it is not something I’m looking for in a camera, I’d rather have low noise when I underexpose and overexpose shots, not only when I’m right on, here I believe this camera is just as strong as a 1DC or Alexa for that matter. So for me the low noise is noteworthy but not something I deem very important for filmmaking.
Again, you can look at this two ways, the tech-spec scientific way, and the way how this tool actually reacts to real-life situations, how ergonomic it is and how it feels and looks like when you watch it. For me the Alexa still clearly comes out on top on the aforementioned points, while on the portability aspect not so much. As we know, there’s no perfect camera.

Guest
March 15th, 2013

I’m loving Sony!

Dennis Hingsberg
Member
March 14th, 2013

Here’s my F55 dyanmic range test https://vimeo.com/61298885 Also the F55 shoots 48 minutes on 128GB in 4k XAVC mode,.. :=)

luigi
luigi
Guest
March 14th, 2013

thanks for the test Dennis,
i read a little on your forum, and I informed some of what you say.
1. RED EPIC be 16-bit. Red one 12-bit, do not understand how you can say that Sony is better because 16-bit. Alexa and Epic are several years using it.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?85797-12-bit-or-16-bit-Scarlet-specs-that-no-one-seems-to-know&p=1067326&viewfull=1#post1067326

2. show us the differences and how do you make the grade between Alexa, Epic and F55? would be interesting.

3. show us in your workflow with the f55? I with Alexa and EPIC can immediately see the movie and do editing with premiere and final cut x, what do you use now?

4.I heard stories of people who have tried the F5 and F55 and the skin tone to be “plastic” and true?

5. you’re not afraid of having made a bad investment? and if now Alexa and RED make a better sensor from Sony? technology runs much these days. Knowing that the film uses RED and Arri not have a bit of anxiety?
I personally have invested my money in Alexa and EPIC rather than the sony f65 is not very successful I do not think the f55 or f5 he has more.

thanks again for the test.

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 15th, 2013

Hi Dennis,
We got 60 minutes for 128GB and checked in different occasions, that’s what the camera said.
Thanks for your dynamic range test. Personally I validate dynamic range on skin tones.

luigi
luigi
Guest
March 14th, 2013

I do not think that will change ‘a lot in the future.
The cameras that were chosen to make films are RED and ARRI, as evidenced by the list, this is because ‘at the end of grade appear to be very close to the cinematic look.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_shot_in_digital

Arri will come with a new sensor soon to 4k, be inevitable. Red will present ‘and will update’ epic at Dragon in just over 1 month to NAb and I do not think as some claim that it is in trouble ‘, or rather will’ certainly a nice sensor.
Then we’ll see the usual tests of shit, Epic vs Arri REd vs F55 vs Canon 1DC Epic, etc etc … instead of doing the tests as helping people to create a good work flow and how to extract the most out of the camera, there will be the usual tests to 20000 iso overexposure over 5 stop … but when ever a good DP on a set go to 20000 and ISO +5 stop overexposure!!! this confuse people on what to buy …
The cameras have an instrument, you have to choose what suits you the most.

SSVHD
Guest
March 14th, 2013

I’ve been testing an F5 lately, next to my C300 PL and I’m impressed with the latter at 1080P. The F5 truly has no need for a detail circuit, it’s redundant. I’m sure it’s the same for the F55. I’m being told by people who know, that the Alexa is softer, noisier and has less dynamic range than the F55. Clearly the F55 sets a new bar at the price point and has a huge amount of flexibility.

The F5 is a fantastic 1080P and at some point 2K camera, plus can do 4K raw. The most amazing part of the F5 and F55 is the 14 + stops of dynamic range. What is the 1DC dynamic range? This is more important to me than ultimate resolution.

I don’t understand how the 1DC has more latitude for grading when it’s acknowledged that Canon buries the blacks?

Regarding the C300, this is not a post production camera, but it does have great resolution, good DR, small size and light weight, PL-mount option, long record time, long battery time, very easy to shoot with, and a super simple work flow. Until clients are clamoring for 4K, the C300 is still a fantastic tool for most of my clients needs.

James F.
James F.
Guest
March 13th, 2013

Well I like both cameras – but careful mentioning Shane and all the promoting he does for Canon. He even bashes other brands then retracts what he types when Canon slap him on the wrist. He is a fanboy and not to be taken seriously.

Example:

http://tiny.cc/8fiwtw

Jerrod Dole
Jerrod Dole
Guest
March 13th, 2013

Sebastian and craigc, the answer is “no”. Your logic is off.

You are making the assumption that all DP’s work only with low budgets and no crew as you seem to. Well surprise, that may be your reality but it is not the same for all professional DP’s. Here is another fact for you: not all DP’s would sacrifice image quality and color depth for lower cost. You’re also assuming that all DP’s work for themselves in run ‘n gun mode and are never contracted by high-profile agencies that place the utmost importance on image quality. These agencies do not consider the cost of cameras such as the Alexa , F55 or RED Epics as out of their budget. They have already witnessed the difference of the look between cameras such as the Alexa, RED or F55 compared to the 1DC, and they request the best because that’s what they want and they can afford it. They hire the best DP they can because that is what they want and they can afford it. They allow time in their budgets for the DP to create the frame for each shot in the list because that is what they want and they can afford it.

It’s not a hard-knock life for every DP out there. Perhaps for the readers of the web site.

Still curious how Canon marketing will spin the 1DC once they recognize that C500 sales are not nearly as high as what they were expecting.

craigc
craigc
Guest
March 12th, 2013

So, if you are using the above edited piece as a reference for making money ( All things being equal) and you bid on a job, it was cheaper for you to shoot on the Canon, then to have shot on the sony and had to farm out (and pay for) some of the post workflow to be done for you. We can only compare these two cameras in this discussion. Can’t bring what the ARRI might have done into the picture due to the other parts of the production package – you cant mount those lenses on the ARRI – and once again you would have blown your budget renting similar PL glass- so the smart pick for these two cameras as they were shot for this example is the Canon,? yes?.

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 13th, 2013
Reply to  craigc

In my case the 1DC would definitely have been the cheaper workflow. Someone with more Sony grading experience might be just as lucky with the F55.
But then again, both cameras are in a very different pricerange to begin with. We were just curious to see how these two cameras would compare to each other to get a better picture of both.

Don
Don
Guest
March 12th, 2013

How does the BMCC hold up against the 1DC?
(Detailed, explained response preferred)

craigc
craigc
Guest
March 12th, 2013

Well here is what I think. I liked parts of both. Some of the canon clips were good , some not. Same with Sony. One was not even focused on the same object between the two cams I think. ( see pipe grinding) THAT happens in production. its part of real world issues. Would this type of piece ever be used in 4K as a for hire piece? probably not for a few more years. What I want to know as a shooter for hire, is How fast can I get the pages shot. How fast can I setup and capture the images needed by the producer standing over to my left wanting to see the shots. This is about making more money for less time by getting the day done faster. This piece being presented is not up for a Golden Bear. I would not use an Epic or a ARRI on this type of piece. So if its down to picking one of these two. Then tell me which one setup, captured and had the footage cut the quickest. At the end of the commercial production day, that camera with the fastest production turnaround will get you a call back by the commercial producer.

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 12th, 2013
Reply to  craigc

Having had to deal with the footage when it came in I can tell you in terms of post-production that’s very easy to answer:
I can work the 1DC footage on my Macbook. It’s the well established C-log that will give me a clean r709 look when I delut it with anything. Pretty stable, can’t do much wrong.
The F55 I’m too amateurish in terms of color correction to treat, it needs proper resources, I had to get it processed in a post-house, colors would break apart on my machines. There it was delutted, looked horrible, and had to be graded and adjusted. That was easy for the grader, but you need to be experienced to get it right.
The file formats are awkward in both cases. Needs to be converted at some point to edit.
If you have a workflow set-up and people who know what they do with the F55 it might be just as fast, but if you’re a small crew or one man band the 1DC will be more convenient and quicker in my opinion. The F55 is another level and needs that level of professional resources.

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 12th, 2013

Ah yes, the Alexa is 300% more convenient to use than either of these cameras in post. Smaller files, ProRes files, 100% stable solid colors that look perfect when delutted, looks amazing in HD, even when blown up to 4K.
Don’t need a post-house to get my Alexa footage right.
That just should be noted when saying F55 is another level, as Alexa is another level too and still the best workflow experience I’ve encountered.

marktierneyfilm
Guest
March 9th, 2013

I’m with Henry. The 1DC gives you 4k at maximum portability. That’s key for my personal work. Currently I use a D800 for that.
On my bigger jobs, would I choose the F55 over an Alexa? Maybe, but I wouldn’t rush.
For working pros I think the F5 is probably the best investment. Deliver ‘Alexa quality’ now, jump to 4k later as jobs warrant. I’ve worked with 4k since 08: number of jobs that went the whole way in 4k? One.
I do think these cameras will have a significant impact on the RED and C300 market. Canon’s advantage is the investment a lot of people have in their lenses, but the C300 looks significantly overpriced right now.

Jerrod Dole
Jerrod Dole
Guest
March 8th, 2013

Right on regarding the ALEXA.

Right on about the F5 & F55.

I don’t quite see RED being in trouble. They drove the market to where it is now. They will do it again.

It will be interesting to see how Canon marketing spins the 1DC once they recognize that C500 quotas are not nearly as high as what they were expecting.

marklondon
Guest
March 11th, 2013
Reply to  Jerrod Dole

I love the ‘RED drove the market, they will again’. They will try, but i’m sorry, the Alexa was the camera that finally killed off film. Did we all move to 4K in 2008? No. We’re only just doing it now. Why? Sony and Canon. I like the EPIC, and the Dragon sensor looks nice, but no-one sensible is betting their production workflow on them.
I agree completely with Henry.
Eventually Arri will announce their 4K, and that will be the one that moves the entire production chain.

Henry
Henry
Guest
March 8th, 2013

There’s no question anymore what the best camera is. The ALEXA has won that race many times over and it’s the only camera Producers and DPs request. Period (and now that it does RAW at 120fps on-board, game over). Also it’s cheap to rent.

Now, for the freelance guys who buy rather than rent, both the F55 and 1DC are very appealling, and for different reasons. The F55 is like a baby alexa and very promising for all its features, just like the F5, and appear to have no competition at this point (i think c300 and c500 are in big trouble, so is RED).

The 1DC, well, throw it into a backpack with a couple of lenses and a monopod and you can go to the snow and the beach and shoot both world class stills and 4K video, regardless of the weather. Turn it on and shoot. That’s the beauty of this cam. Currently at €8.5k+VAT and with promised 25p, I’m changing my mind about this thing.

Also very nice to see how the F55 and 1DC cut so well together.

Jerrod Dole
Jerrod Dole
Guest
March 8th, 2013

Andree, I’ll make this one brief.

First off, I would use a 1DC, but only if the shoot necessitated for it. I’ll state it again: Most any DP who has been contracted to shoot a feature film for the big screen is inevitably always going to first reach for the camera that yields the best IQ and the most creative options (that fits within the camera budget), such as the F5 or F55. Low budget? Perhaps shooting with a DSLR is your thing. Eventually in your career, you’ll want to step up and stop using a DSLR as your A camera.

You’re being presumptuous by assuming I have an agenda, or that I perceive that others who’ve made a different decision or think that the 1DC is better are wrong. I don’t concern myself about what others decide to buy, that is all too peripheral…

I do know marketing when I see it. And I call it as I see it. You speak of community. I’ll ask you the same question you ask me: What is your agenda?

Stating that I’m going off on tangents is your way of trying to stifle me. That is very artful of you.

Here’s to community. And integrity.

Jerrod Dole
Jerrod Dole
Guest
March 8th, 2013

Quoting Reuben: “Shane Hurlburt is a big fan of the 1DC, and even called it an A camera. but then when it came time to do his next feature, he chose Alexa. F55 wasnt available yet.”

Agreed Reuben.

Let’s all find our way to reality. Have you been following the scene for the past 2 years? Shane Hurlbut has been performing scads of presentations for Canon. Shane is a wonderfully talented cinematographer and a grand human being, so no knocking Shane down or slurs intended… Still, one cannot disregard the point. Usher in Canon marketing. Shane has been contracted (paid) multiple times by Canon to present at Canon trade shows or marketing events. He was commissioned (paid) to shoot the Canon 1DC demo “The Ticket” for Canon. He is also a distinguished Canon “Explorer Of Light” (Whatever that means. Sounds like marketing to me.). Who knows how else Shane has benefitted from contracts with Canon? One could guess free or heavily discounted 1DC, C300 or C500 bodies and, or Cinema EOS prime lenses… additional contracts with other manufacturers and retail outlets partnered with Canon (B&H)…

Who else is compensated by Canon as an emissary for Canon EOS kit? Canon bestows a mammoth allowance to their marketing department to hype and boost sales of EOS DSLRs and cinema camcorders. Sony? Not so much. They don’t have to. Sony products sell themselves.

Understand, if the goal is to be fair, 100% impartial, professional and unbiased in producing a “side by side camera test comparison”, it should be done by multiple, impartial industry professionals without compensation. Not even compensation for expenses or a special “long-term loan” of said camera gear.

Sadly, this has not happened. We’re reading what seemingly was a two person undertaking, one of whom (with respect) mostly takes the “run and gun” approach and runs a website named “Cinema5D” (ie: Canon 5D).

We don’t need to see a music video in which every clip is color corrected by someone who made his own call on what the camera footage should look like. Lose the music. That you even spent an ounce of energy searching for a music bed bothers me. Display how the footage looks ungraded as well in the same clip. Most importantly, provide detailed information on exactly what camera settings were utilised on each camera during capture. (Have you ever heard of a “Camera Report”?) Claiming that the 1DC has 1 extra stop under compared to the F55 is a big red flag which makes me ask myself “who did this test?” If you are going to make such claims, please be courteous and provide the proof.

Andree
Guest
March 8th, 2013
Reply to  Jerrod Dole

Jerrod, you could have just cut to the chase and said that you favor the Canon.

There is no real need to try to fix the world, going off on tangents about how corrupted people really are, even if their contribution to the community has been well received.

It seems you have made up your mind on what camera system is best for you. Great! What is the rest of your agenda? Convincing people that have made a different decision, for reasons you’re not familiar with, that their wrong?

Just relax a bit. They even uploaded a 4k version so that everyone can make up their own mind.

Ben Corwin
Guest
March 8th, 2013

30 minutes on a 128GB card for compressed 4K? Yikes! Talk about an inferior codec.

Ben Corwin
Guest
March 8th, 2013
Reply to  Ben Corwin

8 bit 4K that is…

rgestalt
Guest
March 8th, 2013

Interesting

burt
burt
Guest
March 8th, 2013

Great – someone says something ‘negative’ about Canon and they are haters. How about stopping all these ridiculous tests and just make something engaging – that way no one will give a shit about what camera is being used. “You can always sharpen it in post…’ LOL , yes that was a jab.

Andree
Guest
March 8th, 2013
Reply to  burt

Burt, for the record, I’m not at all sure that ‘hate’ is even inappropriate but:

Why would someone even say something ‘negative’ about Canon? Or Sony? Or RED?

Each of these companies develop products that they believe will fit a certain user or niche. I’m pretty sure they don’t go through iterations of development cycles and invest in R&D to piss people off.

I don’t understand why it’s so hard to express oneself with one’s own needs as a base, instead of categorically dismissing products that might be a perfect fit for someone else.

Almost everything is a compromise. Some compromise on IQ, or even a subset of IQ, and others on form factor, convenience, price or any number of things.

burt
burt
Guest
March 8th, 2013
Reply to  Andree

Andree,

Hmm…maybe no one should be critical of Canon on a site named ‘Cinema 5D’ ;-)

Anyway, Jerrod above brings up some valid points – and I hope it doesn’t get buried under the 1DC the lovefest.

Cheers!

Andree
Guest
March 8th, 2013

I’m impressed with the F55 footage. Some shots more than others. Immediately in the opening shots we really see the F55’s edge over the 1DC in clarity and micro contrast.

I also thought the 1DC looked quite good at the end there…

Now, people who just love to hate the 1DC need to get their act together. If you’re just a filmmaker and you want ultimate IQ, and money and rig format isn’t an issue—definitely go with the F55 (or F5).

With the 1DC you ride your bike to the shop with a backpack and a monopod strapped to it. Get in and out in 90 minutes and have the stills to go with the story. Your next assignment is a photo shoot…

Just because you don’t need the DSLR format or stills function doesn’t mean you should hate the camera or people who do.

The fact that we’re even looking at this comparison, and that it comes as close as it does when graded and ready, says it all.

Jacob
Guest
May 2nd, 2013
Reply to  Andree

Andree,

Those are great points. I agree with what you’re saying wholeheartedly!

Nate Weaver
Member
March 8th, 2013

One thing about the F55 footage, the S-Log2 was overexposed. I have a lot of experience with SLog as an F3 owner, and now as a 55 owner.

Properly exposed Slog2 puts 18% gray at 30IRE. Of course the operator made it look fine by not clipping any part of the frame that looked bad, but if it had been done technically “right”, there would have been another stop or two of highlight detail to be used if needed in the color session.

Jerrod Dole
Jerrod Dole
Guest
March 8th, 2013

So Marvin, if we are to adopt your reasoning, then we would also have to state that:
“The price of the Canon C500 is over two times the cost of the 1DC ($27K vs $12K). Is the image quality over two times better? Taking price and mobility into account, I think 1DC has totally blown Canon C500 away.” Does that make sense to you too?

Now anyone who has compared the image quality -and- features of the C500 against the F55 knows quite well that the F55 wins. This has been validated by some very seasoned and talented NYC and Hollywood cinematographers – of which I doubt you are one of them, judging from your implications that lower cost is the deal breaker. If you are selected to DP a feature film or high end spot, your’e inevitably always going to first reach for the camera that yields the best IQ, global shutter (do you recognize the importance of a global shutter?) and the most creative options. The 1DC aint happening in that department.

Reuben Steinberg
Member
March 8th, 2013

the 1D is impressive, no doubt. but the F55 has tons more depth, detail and sharpness. not only that, but its not just sharpness, the tonal values and color detail within its superior dynamic range has a lot more information. more subtle color in the shadows and highlights are retained. can you shoot an movie on the 1D? absolutely, but the F55’s features blow away the 1D as well, lets not forget what else you’re getting for the price difference feature wise. depends on the work you do as well. 1D will only get you so far, but it definitely is impressive. Shane hurlburt is a big fan of the 1D, and even called it an A camera. but then when it came time to do his next feature, he chose Alexa. F55 wasnt available yet. F55 is meant to play with the big boys, and from what i can tell, its ready

Guest
May 1st, 2013

http://www.definitionmagazine.com/journal/2013/4/18/need-for-speeds-need-for-cameras.html

“Hurlbut’s camera package includes four Arri Alexas, 13 Canon C500s, 10 Canon 1D-Cs and 15 GoPro Hero3s.”

I think Shane thinks the 1dc’s are also ready now haha..

Marvin
Marvin
Guest
March 7th, 2013

The price of F55 is about three times higher than 1D C (35k VS. 12k), is the image quality also three times higher on F55? Obviously no.

Taking price and mobility into account, I think 1D C has totally blown F55 away.

Goofy
Goofy
Guest
March 8th, 2013
Reply to  Marvin

The f55 was basically used as an f5 by using only the new XAVC codec and not the full raw capabilities…
The f5 costs 14k and the 1DC 10k…

Andree
Guest
March 8th, 2013
Reply to  Goofy

Agreed. Bring out the F5 and do some further testing. This time though, let’s test the still side. Should be interesting…

Jerrod Dole
Jerrod Dole
Guest
March 7th, 2013

Cinematic quality? As in softer looking with more saturation skewed towards the warm side? Yeah, you are correct. The 1DC is softer. And a bit warmer looking.

It’s rather easy to warm up your tones during capture, or in post, isn’t it? Most togs would rather have as much resolution they can acquire and know they always have the ability to “soften” the image in post. Or soften the image by dialing down the detail during capture. Who would really prefer a camera that is inherently softer to begin with? Yeah, you can “sharpen” it in post, but that is not nearly the same thing as having a camera which is more resolute to begin with – and which gives you more options. Not to mention the professional features which the 1DC seriously lacks (ie: a superior lens mount over the EF mount, Global Shutter, SDI, variable frame rates, etc)

Any seasoned professional cinematographer shooting for a demanding upscale client or high-end project is going to want to have the most options available in her/ her toolkit.

It’s always nice to play and compare Hondas to BMW’s though, someone’s bound to do it if they think they can make money out of it.

burt
burt
Guest
March 8th, 2013
Reply to  Jerrod Dole

Amen Jerrod, glad someone else has the balls to NOT glaze over Canons’ bad points and sponsored ‘experts’.

skip
skip
Guest
March 8th, 2013
Reply to  burt

haha yeah those “canon expers” .. always the same .. Johnnie and Nino

but yes the sony looks far superior than this lousy canon footage

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 8th, 2013
Reply to  skip

What are you talking about?

sergio cassini
sergio cassini
Guest
March 12th, 2013
Reply to  Jerrod Dole

hey,i second you on every line.well put.i wonder they didn’t mix the bmcc in there ;-)

Jerrod Dole
Jerrod Dole
Guest
March 7th, 2013

It’s completely visible that the F55 has significantly more Image Quality (ie: resolution, depth, S/N ratio) than the 1DC.

Let’s be honest here. The 1DC footage looks like a bit like standard definition when viewed against the F55 footage.

Sebastian Wöber
Sebastian Wöber
Guest
March 7th, 2013
Reply to  Jerrod Dole

Yes, there is a lot of detail and depth in the F55 footage. But it’s not all about pixels and sharpness. If you need that and have the device to screen it then the F55 will probably serve you well.

waylon
waylon
Guest
May 14th, 2013

Sem falar também que a Sony é Global Shutter, e isso faz toda a diferença.

(Not to mention that Sony is also Global Shutter, and that makes all the difference.)

Admin
March 7th, 2013
Reply to  Jerrod Dole

Click on the Vimeo link to download the 4K original file and to judge it accordingly. Yes, there is more detail, but the 1DC seems to have a very cinematic quality

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