Apple’s Patent Challenge Against RED Dismissed – RED RAW Patent Remains Valid

November 11th, 2019
Apple's Patent Challenge Against RED Dismissed - RED RAW Patent Remains Valid

US patent court dismissed Apple’s challenge to RED’s compressed RED RAW recording patent due to the lack of relevant evidence. Their patent withstands Apple’s challenge for now, so ProRes RAW remains to be used in cameras only with RED’s permission (license).

Apple’s Challenge of RED RAW Dismissed.

ProRes RAW Format

In August 2019, Apple challenged RED’s Compressed RAW recording patent by the US patent court. It seems the reason was Apple’s ProRes RAW codec. The Cupertino tech giant wanted to push their own developed codec further and make it available for other camera manufacturers. This codec, by the definition of it, fulfills RED’s patented compressed RAW codec recording. That’s why anyone who wants to use such a codec in their devices, needs to either make an agreement with RED (and pay for the use).

Right now, ProRes RAW is only available at selected Atomos recorders. The Australian company most likely made an agreement with RED and they are licensing the use of ProRes RAW. It seems that by challenging RED’s patent, Apple wanted to find a way around having to pay the license fees.

Apple’s Challenge Dismissed

The new update in the case from yesterday is that Apple’s challenge by the US Patent court has been dismissed. They stated it as Denying Institution of Inter Partes Review.

The 19 pages PDF document is available for download at United states patent and trademark office website. The conclusion is written as the following:

III. CONCLUSION

Petitioner has not shown a reasonable likelihood that it would prevail in establishing that any of the challenged claims 1–30 are unpatentable.

IV. ORDER

It is ORDERED that the Petition is denied and that no inter partes review is instituted for any challenged claim on any ground of unpatentability.

It seems to me that if Apple wants to go further with this case, they can provide additional evidence and make USPTO open the case again. For now, however, RED’s patent withstands the challenge.

Please note that this article also includes my speculations. Both companies, of course, don’t publish every bit of information concerning their legal disputes. RED and Apple have had an active business relationship for years.

Jarred Land’s post. Source: RedUser

RED’s president Jarred Land, of course, reacted to this by posting a short comment in the new thread on RedUser. I pasted the full version here:

We are pleased to see our REDCODE patents withstand another challenge.

To be clear, as I mentioned before, this never really was Apple vs. RED. It has always been APPLE + RED, and this was all part of the process defining how we work together in the future.

RED integration with Apple’s METAL framework for realtime R3D playback is coming along well and the work that the two teams are doing together is exceeding expectations. We are very excited for the new Mac Pro and the new XDR pro display and the power they bring to the entire RED workflow.

He also posted a red-apple-heart photo on his Instagram, stating that both companies will continue to work together closely in the future as well. There is no official statement from Apple about this case yet.

View this post on Instagram

RED ❤️ APPLE #r3d

A post shared by Jarred Land (@instajarred) on

What do you think of this case? Do you expect Apple to try to challenge the patent again or not? Let us know in the comments underneath the article.

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Crimson SonEspen BraathenBrian DeViteriSteve Nyarwaya Recent comment authors
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Bob
Bob
GuestNovember 11th, 2019

Maybe apple need this jinni tech guy on the team….

https://youtu.be/NZ20yQhMYx4

Eugenia L
MemberNovember 12th, 2019

I can’t stand RED, because of such type of business they do. Legal threats left and right, lawsuits for more dough, and often around patents that make no sense. On top of that, there’s all the controversial things they claim about their hardware, e.g. the redmags. I’d never use RED for a project, even if they provided the camera for free. I rather use a cellphone.

Crimson Son
Crimson Son
MemberNovember 14th, 2019

Apple is the one that brought the legal action. Apple is the same company that patent rounded corner icons.
Either way, not sure how this applies to the topic of compressed RAW.

Eugenia L
MemberNovember 17th, 2019

Apple is trying to protect themselves from RED here. RED has *already* asked Blackmagic to stop using DNG, and BMD complied instead of taking the mto court. Apple simply decided to fight them on that silly patent.

Steve Oakley
MemberNovember 11th, 2019

This isn’t done and over. This is simply salvo one. Apple can appeal this and really the PO pretty much handed apple a guideline of what they need to do in order to have a successful appeal. Even if apple looses the appeal of this process, they can then take it to real court if they want, fund a legal fight that would leave RED dead. This first process is simply the fast / cheap way to invalidate a patent, but for a company like apple, they can continue to fight and drag it out for considerably longer if they choose. Its often a tactic in patent fights – can you afford the fight ? This is hardly over although a little surprising it wasn’t successful on first try. That said BRAW suddenly got onto the radar a lot higher since it offers camera companies an option right now today they can implement.

Sandy Chase
Sandy Chase
GuestNovember 11th, 2019

But in the meantime, I’m guessing that means fewer camera companies, editing systems, and recorders will incorporate ProRes RAW, which is a bummer.

Steve Oakley
MemberNovember 12th, 2019

the RED patent is specific to recording in the camera body, so NLE’s etc may support as they want. Apple just made ProRes RAW part of AVfoundation so any app that uses AVfoundation has access to PR RAW now. Originally the codec was part of FCP X / Motion / Compressor.

Michael Radeck
MemberNovember 11th, 2019

really wondering, cause REDs patent should have been never applied, cause it is invalid: there was done extensive research about what’s the real history about REDs Patent and where the sensor-technology comes from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ20yQhMYx4 RED PATENTS – Things you only thought you knew about RED DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA
another point are the marketing lies about the difference between the image resolution that the audience gets to see and the sensor resolution. There is a big difference. historically these lies had a big impact on the whole industry simple said 4k sensor resolutions have nothing to do with 4k image resolution… one point is, RED raw uses image compression algorithm that was already invented: “wavelet” like jpeg2000. And before they started to get the patent the files were not encrypted so anyone could decode them and see what’s inside. Think about, if RED ever goes insolvent and no one develops the redraw plugins any more, no one can reed the raw files anymore on newer software/OS combinations.

Crimson Son
Crimson Son
MemberNovember 14th, 2019

I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. Non of the things you said invalidate the patent though.

Seems like you have an issue with R3D in general. The patent does not depend on the use of wavelet compression. It applies to any compression of the sensor dump.

 Serhat Akbal
Serhat Akbal
MemberNovember 11th, 2019

Red is an incredibly imperialist institution that nurtures the user!

Steve Nyarwaya
Steve Nyarwaya
GuestNovember 12th, 2019

I’m a bit confused.
You wrote: “The Australian company most likely made an agreement with RED and they are licensing the use of ProRes RAW. It seems that by challenging RED’s patent, Apple wanted to find a way around having to pay the license fees.”
Why should Apple pay a license fee to RED to let Atomos use ProRes RAW in its external recorders?
RED patents apply to IN-camera compressed RAW recording.
To my knowledge Sony & Codex don’t pay RED license fees to record on their onboard recorders.
Why should Atomos pay RED to record PR RAW on its devices?
It might be the case if they wanted to record PR RAW from a RED RAW feed out of a DSMC2 camera.

 Brian DeViteri
Brian DeViteri
MemberNovember 12th, 2019

The patents are for compressed RAW recording, which is what Apple’s ProResRAW is – a compressed RAW recording codec.

Steve Nyarwaya
Steve Nyarwaya
GuestNovember 12th, 2019

Internal and external?

 Brian DeViteri
Brian DeViteri
MemberNovember 12th, 2019

Apparently that’s where some debate is ongoing. The paperwork I’ve seen basically show internal only, but the methods of using external recording direct from sensor (like Atomos does for ProResRAW) are “technically” skirting the patent with a cable. If the patent holds, the method for skirting would likely not hold and that would be ruled a patent violation (unless licensed). But now you’re into a much more nuanced legal argument and good luck getting anyone non-technical to understand what’s going on here…

Atomos made the right decision to license the tech from RED before offering ProResRAW on their devices. Problem is Apple either was unaware RED owned these patents, thought they wouldn’t stand up to legal challenge, or thought it wasn’t a big enough issue for them to overcome. (Or as some are trying to suggest, it was a test in the courts to better gauge RED’s value for a buyout/purchase offer.)

Next 2-3 years will dictate a lot for how RAW recording moves forward. Not convinced ProResRAW will take off or be largely embraced after this ruling, but as long as this does not end up like the wireless lavaliere mic transmitters that cannot have a built in recorder (in the USA), it shouldn’t be the end of the world.

 Espen Braathen
Espen Braathen
MemberNovember 13th, 2019

RED patens covers both internal recording and external recorder coneted to camera by wire.

Fear not. The patents are expired in 2028. Only 8 years to go.

Yigal Pesahov
Yigal Pesahov
GuestNovember 11th, 2019

apple will revenge … ? iCinemacam soon? :)

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