Canon Interview: R5 and R6 Overheating Questions Answered

September 10th, 2020
Canon Interview: R5 and R6 Overheating Questions Answered

The Canon EOS R5 and EOS R6 are now shipping and as we all know, these new cameras have suffered severe overheating issues when first introduced to the market. The current situation of both cameras became (much) better with the recent introduction of firmware 1.1.1. Yet, we approached Canon with a request for an interview hoping that our questions regarding the situation can be answered. This morning we got a notification that Katsuyuki Nagai-san, Product Management Director of Image Communication Business at Canon Europe, took the time to respond. We do hope that the answers below will shed some light on how product rollout and decisions are being made.

Johnnie – CineD: The Canon EOS R5 is already shipping and there is no doubt that the camera is a technical marvel. What led Canon to introduce this product and don’t you think that introducing such an 8K mirrorless camera is a bit too early?

Katsuyuki Nagai-sanCanon: Someone has to be first, right?

Canon has always been a pioneer in video and stills camera development. The EOS 5D Mark II was the first full HD camera at a time when people asked, ‘why would you want to shoot video with a stills camera?’ We then followed up with the EOS-1D C in 2012, one of the first internal recording 4K cameras, and again people questioned the need for 4K when most were still moving to Full HD.

Someone has to push the boundaries as to what is possible. It’s worth noting that new games consoles support 8K and we are seeing more brands pushing 8K TVs, which will be in the homes of many users in the near future more so than 4K was back in 2012.

8K has been a goal for Canon for a while not just for video but stills/ hybrid shooters too. When we introduced the EOS 5D Mark II, customers who would become what we now know as hybrid shooters had been using separate video and stills cameras. They were asking for one product they could use to shoot stills and video at the same time. With a camera capturing Full HD, the stills result fell short of the 20MP still images the camera was capable of. The move to 4K improved this to 8MP, still 1⁄2 or 1/3 the quality of the still side of the camera. Now with 8K users do not have to worry so much about ‘do I shoot this moment in video or do I shoot stills?’ They can now grab high quality stills from the video footage afterwards.

Canon EOS R5 Camera. Image credit: CineD

Johnnie – CineD: When looking at Canon’s official online marketing material, both Canon EOS R5 and EOS R6 were promised to be the “ultimate hybrid camera” and “ultimate content creation tool”. (https://www.canon-europe.com/ cameras/eos-r6/). Also, a “game-changing” tool was mentioned. (https:// www.canon-europe.com/cameras/eos-r5/). Now, looking backward, in your opinion, was this promise to customers fulfilled?

Katsuyuki Nagai-sanCanon: We stand by these claims – the EOS R5 and R6 are not dedicated video cameras, they are stills camera hybrids.

These cameras offer levels of stills performance not seen before. The high- resolution EOS R5 matches its closest competitors, coupled with the speed to match the fastest but lower resolution sports cameras on the market today.

Class leading autofocus, image stabilisation, 10bit recording and Canon Log are game changing features that make people re-evaluate what a mirrorless camera is. When it comes to video, even if we exclude the 8K and 4K 60p functions of these cameras, they are still two of the highest specification video enabled stills cameras Canon has launched to date and are the ultimate hybrid cameras for today.

Johnnie – CineD: Both cameras suffered from overheating issues in video recording and more than that, long recovery times. By introducing the latest firmware update, it seems as if Canon is trying to overcome some of those issues by allowing longer recording and shorter recovery waiting times (until the camera can film again). What exactly is causing those cameras to overheat and what’s the new FW doing in order to help here?

Katsuyuki Nagai-sanCanon: I think we should look at the fundamentals of the whole topic to give a better perspective. The cameras feature cutting edge features squeezed into compact bodies designed to offer weather resistance.

This is where we come to the first of the two governing factors that affect the cameras when it comes to overheating. Holding a very warm object for an extended period has the potential to result in what is known as low temperature burns. Secondary is to protect the internal components of the camera from the overheating. We limit how hot the external body of the camera can get to protect users, which is one of the causes of overheat shutdown. Some heat management must also be applied to ensure the camera continues to operate.

Recording time is controlled by monitoring the temperature inside the camera body and the last usage status information (operating time). With the new firmware we improved the temperature detection system and updated the video recording time control algorithm. The combination of these two points enables the system to increase recording time by taking into consideration things like external cooling during filming.

Also, the movie recording time displayed when powering the camera off/on quickly between recording consecutive short videos (at room temperature) has been improved.

Johnnie – CineD: Lots of information can be found on the internet showing how to “bypass” some of the restrictions Canon originally imposed on the EOS R5 to record long 8K RAW video. Of course, I can understand that you can not refer to “hacks”, so let me ask, is there any danger to the camera or sensor by allowing much longer 8K RAW recording times – longer than what Canon currently allows?

Katsuyuki Nagai-sanCanon: To ensure the safety of users, we control the recording time by monitoring the temperature inside the camera body and the last usage status information (operating time). We do not recommend resetting the camera via the removal of the battery during recording or via dismantling the camera. If the internal memory is reset in this way, the camera may become unusable, temperature control may no longer work correctly, and the camera may overheat more than expected resulting in the power supply components not operating correctly.

Johnnie – CineD: To some people, it seemed as if Canon was trying to protect their professional EOS camera line by restricting recording times. That might have caused some trust issues between potential customers and the company. Is there anything you would like to highlight in order to reassure people that whatever was done, was not intentional but to technically protect the camera?

Katsuyuki Nagai-sanCanon: This is an accusation we’ve seen before which belongs on the conspiracy theory pile. It is simply not a sensible business idea as users are more likely to switch to competitor systems than buy a much more expensive camera to get a certain feature.

There are factors that govern what a camera can and cannot do, the primary of which is the components used based on the cost of the camera. Making a camera that can do everything would require higher resolution viewfinders, bigger buffers, faster processors to handle the data, faster card buses to write to cards etc, all components which typically cost more.

It is important that we evaluate the primary customer for each product and decide what features would be required by that typical user. We do not ‘cripple’ our cameras, our aim is always to focus the product better to the typical user.

One issue manufacturers face is feedback that cameras are difficult to use and some people prefer to use their smartphones. If we follow the model of just making the same camera but cheaper, that does not tackle the issue of making a camera easier to use. We aim to make each model of camera more intuitive to use, without excess menus or features that may hinder or discourage use rather than expand it.

Canon EOS R6. Image credit: CineD

Johnnie – CineD: In regards to the EOS R6, are we going to see any future improvements in encoding quality, allowing All-intra on top of IBP or even 4K RAW recording for example?

Katsuyuki Nagai-sanCanon: We are constantly listening to customer feedback. EOS R6 sales have only just begun so we need to spend a little time listening to understand what is needed now the cameras are in the hands of end users, before making any further plans on updates for the EOS R6 over those we have already announced.

Johnnie – CineD: At the end of the day, what should we expect from the EOS R5 and EOS R6 cameras? Will you improve recording time in the near future (and keep the same video quality), or are we approaching the end of improvements and those 2 cameras will continue to be restricted as they are today?

Katsuyuki Nagai-sanCanon: We plan to keep enhancing these products but as explained in my previous answer, there are limitations that cannot simply be overcome via a firmware update.

I would like to Thank Katsuyuki Nagai-san from Canon Europe for taking the time to answer our questions. I also hope that you guys will take the time to comment below. Let’s keep the conversation respectful!

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Matthew Freeman
Matthew Freeman
Member
September 14th, 2020

EOS R5 certainly looks like an intriguing Canon model. More rivalry is positive for everyone. Monopolies and monopolies in turn contribute to higher costs and less growth. Also the Sony, Fuji and so on will win, as Canon will curb its ability to overprice its products. More competitive

Chris Tian
Chris Tian
Member
September 13th, 2020

This gentleman did not answer any questions at all. I will definitely sell my R5 and sell all my lenses to move to Sony. I’m tired of seeing the disrespect these people have for their customers. We’ve been dealing with the limitations of Canon for years while others are making progress. The Canon R was already way behind the competition, and now we have to endure business choices that are very questionable and that don’t benefit the business or the technological development. We put a lot of money on equipment to make it easier to use, and even if we only look at its definition of hybrid, Sony does better than Canon. These excuses are irrelevant. How to justify for example the absence of 120fps in 1080p to take advantage of such a limited shooting time in 4K at 120fps? That they at least allow us to have alternatives. They prefer to restrict our creativity. I remind you that the Sony A7SIII has even removed the recording limitations. That’ s enough Canon! We are in 2020!

Tim L
Tim L
Guest
September 12th, 2020

Two thoughts: First, why does Canon need a timer if they’re using three temperature sensors? If the temp sensors tell the camera to shut down, okay. But if the temp sensors aren’t saying shut down and the timer shuts the camera down anyway, how is that not a cripple? Maybe Canon has a good reason for this but it’s not intuitive.

Second, the existence of the cripple hammer is fully documented. To pass it off as a conspiracy theory is an insult to Canon’s customers. I’ll bet I’m not the only one who remembers Canon arbitrarily removing 24p from camera bodies only to add it back in with a firmware update after customer outcry. That is the perfect example of a needless cripple.

Ilkka Nissilä
Ilkka Nissilä
Member
September 12th, 2020
Reply to  Tim L

The probability and extent of thermal damage depends on both the temperature and the duration of exposure to that temperature. Thus keeping track of time is essential to prevent damage due to heat exposure.

Thierry Montgomery
Thierry Montgomery
Member
September 12th, 2020

The interview references “low temperature burns” which didn’t make sense to me because I assumed people can only be burned by high temperatures that cause pain. I looked it up and found that burns occur as a function of not just temperature, but also exposure period. In other words, low temperatures over a prolonged exposure period can cause the same damage to skin cells and underlying tissues as high temperatures over a short period.

Safety regulations therefore exist to minimize risk of low temperature burns and cover any consumer electronics device whose surfaces, including memory cards/batteries, can touch a person’s skin. They are based on:

— temperature of the surface,
— material of the surface,
— period of contact between the skin and the surface,
— structure of the surface, and
— sensitivity of the human being who comes into contact with the surface (e.g. child or adult, not pain/discomfort)

The standard was a huge document with sections A-H plus multiple appendices. My point is that “overheating” is a simple term used for a complex engineering and regulatory issue. The way the camera functions might not make sense from our perspective because they are based on regulatory mandates designed to prevent a phenomenon that isn’t obvious since we can’t feel it, one that must take into account exposure time as well as temperature.

Mean Grain
Mean Grain
Member
September 12th, 2020

They did not answer ANYTHING, excuses were made instead. Now they are introducing a conspiracy theory about not wanting to burn user’s hands. Yet even using the hack and recording continuously for over an hour, it still is cool to the touch. They didn’t even acknowledge the fact that the processor completely lacks a heat sink!

Ameri Pat
Ameri Pat
Member
September 12th, 2020

Read the interview; read a number of comments. I’m still amazed at how many people can’t grasp the idea that electronics create heat and in an enclosed body that is designed to be weather sealed, create a heck of a lot of heat.

All you idiots complaining about the R5 heating issues need to pull the fans/cooling systems out of your laptops/desktop computers and then spin the processor up and make it word hard. Let us know how long it runs before it burns itself up.

Aleve Sicofante
Aleve Sicofante
Member
September 13th, 2020
Reply to  Ameri Pat

Not a single computer out there will burn itself up if you do what you suggest. It first throttles, then just shuts down when the thermals reach a particular value. The R5 processor doesn’t ever go beyond 65° (temps provided by the camera itself…) which is absolutely safe for any chip.

You’re free to believe Canon’s BS, but please don’t make up your own.

Last edited 16 days ago by Aleve Sicofante
canon5dsquared
canon5dsquared
Member
September 11th, 2020

Canon in 2012- 1D C is $15,000 for internal 4K recording

Camera users- That’s too expensive!

Canon in 2020- R5 is $3,899 for internal 8K recording as well as better 4K modes than the 1D C

Camera users- Still found a way to complain about it.

Pavel Suprun
Pavel Suprun
Member
September 12th, 2020
Reply to  canon5dsquared

in 2012 camera no overheating issues.
Negative evolution is what Canon prefer?

canon5dsquared
canon5dsquared
Member
September 12th, 2020
Reply to  Pavel Suprun

In 2012 there wasn’t 8K in a mirrorless body either, not sure how you can compare the two that way but you did it anyway. 4K to 8K sounds like growth to me.

Pavel Suprun
Pavel Suprun
Member
September 13th, 2020
Reply to  canon5dsquared

2012 – 4K which works
2020 – 8K, 4K which may work or may not.
Easy comparison

canon5dsquared
canon5dsquared
Member
14 days ago
Reply to  Pavel Suprun

They both work. Canon released a sheet with the overheating times and there are modes, 4K, that are not limited by heat.
comment image

No need to spread rumors when we have facts.

Chris Gibbs
Chris Gibbs
Member
14 days ago
Reply to  canon5dsquared

Did they ever mention the recovery/cool-down times though?

canon5dsquared
canon5dsquared
Member
14 days ago
Reply to  Chris Gibbs

Yes, how else did everyone know about them BEFORE having a production model camera in their hands if it wasn’t mentioned?

Totofilm Touskiboug
Totofilm Touskiboug
Member
September 12th, 2020
Reply to  canon5dsquared

1DC was only 8 bits internal (and not $15000 but $8000 by the way). But yes, it was expensive for a C Line cam unable to use Log because of banding. 1DC was a crippled tool !

canon5dsquared
canon5dsquared
Member
September 12th, 2020

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS-1D_C

It was $15,000. And, let us pretend you’re right about the price, still, double the cost of the R5 for half the K value. Not sure how you can complain unless that’s what you’re being paid to do.

Philip Bloom
Philip Bloom
Member
September 12th, 2020

It was not $8K it was way more! I know because I paid for one

canon5dsquared
canon5dsquared
Member
14 days ago
Reply to  Philip Bloom

Luckily you can grab a used one for about $3,000 now, which is crazy but worth it for a camera with double the shutter life of the 5D series!

Pavel Suprun
Pavel Suprun
Member
September 11th, 2020

opt A – Canon engineers couldn’t overcome overheating problem
opt B – Canon managers idea was that camera has this restriction
opt C – Canon managers fault (not idea) was that camera has this restriction

I wish CineD has voting function

Paul Corneille
Paul Corneille
Member
September 11th, 2020

I love how much “japanese” are all the answers.
Translation: The R5 is a photocamera only stupid YouTubers and amateurs want use it as video canera.

Loose the cripple hammer
Loose the cripple hammer
Guest
September 11th, 2020

What an arrogant liar.
Of..the..fucking course it is crippled to protect the c line.
Painful to read!!

Michael Johnson
Michael Johnson
Member
September 11th, 2020

I have been using and enjoying my R5 since July when they first shipped. I am still hopeful that the 4K 30 HQ mode would Be made usable even up to 20min with no recovery period. Or even 10min with no recovery time needed as for however long you’d like to shoot.
If these never happens I may end up selling and switching to Sony.
To say they don’t cripple their products I believe is a lie. Look at the 5diii and what magic lantern was able to do with that camera? I have been using it with modification for years with no ill effect to the camera or it’s reliability.
Canon should have the team at magic lantern jump on board and work their magic!

I don’t understand why canon would think people would enjoy such high specs for video and think it would be useful and usable when in such a limited capacity. Customers needing these video specs need them to work without such great restrictions.

Jeroen
Guest
September 11th, 2020

‘We do not cripple our camera’s’, but just did not put all codec options in the R6?

Philip Bloom
Philip Bloom
Member
September 12th, 2020
Reply to  Jeroen

Oh come on! Lower end models always lack features of higher end versions! It’s the same with cars, TVs, fridges, phones…you want me to go on?

anfal
anfal
Guest
September 13th, 2020
Reply to  Philip Bloom

But EOS R does have All-i codec even though its cheaper albeit with a huge crop. I understand it can’t have 8K or RAW. But, it should have reliable 4K. I mean, Sony A7SIII is managing it.
I think the R5 is crippled by the motion jpeg format, excessive file size and data transfer happening within the camera that is causing the heat.
I think they should have allowed 8 bit recording internally in All-i as an option just to have a reliable 4K recording option that won’t overheat and shutdown the camera.

Last edited 16 days ago by anfal
Ben Blankenburg
Ben Blankenburg
Member
September 11th, 2020

Thanks for trying Johnnie, but as usual Canon provides no straight answers and as few features as possible to sell enough cameras to meet specific category numbers for their company. After 25 years of shooting Canon (owning most of the L series glass that is available), this is the last chapter. I was a C200 owner who waited for a 4:2:2 10 bit codec for years (the camera can do raw, but not a lower bit rate codec, really Canon????). I then waited a year for the R5’s and ordered 2. However, the unnecessary “workarounds” for this model is even greater than the last. I’m just looking for tools that work, and have a workflow that allows me to concentrate on shooting.
I’ve cancelled my R5 orders and am selling all my L series glass in transition to Sony and the A7siii. I am deeply loyal and never wanted to make the switch, but the last 10 years have illustrated to me that Canon is not a company I want to be associated with, nor can they be relied upon to provide the tools I need for my business.

EOSHD
Guest
September 11th, 2020

I feel you have made the right decision with the Sony A7S III.

I went to over 10 people at Canon to get a straight answer. All ignored me, after spending 4380 euros on a camera body. What kind of customer service is this?

I was a high profile customer – how are normal consumers treated? I can accept Canon made a mistake. What I cannot accept is that they don’t communicate clearly, honestly and directly to people like me who bought the EOS R5… Instead choosing to go through PR channels instead.

Also it would be nice of Johnnie could acknowledge a lot of the groundwork by customers which made it possible for him to ask the questions he did.

Without users taking the risks or spending so much time testing solutions and revealing the behaviour of the camera, Johnnie would not be asking these questions and Canon would not have felt the need to issue any firmware update whatsoever.

I feel the knowledge and research should get due credit.

And people are absolutely right to be disgruntled and to seek workarounds, after spending upward of $4000 on a camera that isn’t reliable.

Josh D
Josh D
Member
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  EOSHD

Canon was open and honest about the overheating issue before its release. disgruntled? You have to be a moron to go buy something they are telling you what it is capable of and turn around and complain about it. Would you like a pacifier to come with your camera?

Pavel Suprun
Pavel Suprun
Member
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  Josh D

Josh D Canon from the beginning and till now name R5 as hybrid camera, but what a suprise for buyers – it is useless (unreliable) as video cam. Nor for the commercial video, neither for filming your kids, cats…

Mean Grain
Mean Grain
Member
September 12th, 2020
Reply to  Josh D

No mention of the 2 hour cool down period. No mention that shooting a handful of stills cripples the HQ video options. No acknowledgement that is a TIMER, rather than a temp sensor that controls this. And Then they had the nerve to float the conspiracy theory that is was done in an effort to not burn the users’ hands when testing shoes that recording 8k continuously for over an hour leaves the camera cool to the touch. No acknowledging the engineering blunder of not putting any sort of heatsink on the processor. Yeah, just a bunch a morons…

Aleve Sicofante
Aleve Sicofante
Member
September 13th, 2020
Reply to  Josh D

You still don’t get it, do you? It does not overheat. It just pretends it does. This much has been proven already.

Pierre Fromage
Pierre Fromage
Member
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  EOSHD

That’s because you’re a pathetic troll that most people instantly recognise as being weirdly obssessed with your own importance, and needing Canon to recognise it. You do far more harm than good and are a joke in the camera community. It’s hilarious that Canon continue to ignore you and not indulge your idiocy.

Josh D
Josh D
Member
September 11th, 2020

Thank you!!!! Enough crybabys cry like you and cancel and I can get mine faster…

Loose the cripple hammer
Loose the cripple hammer
Guest
September 11th, 2020

I feel the pain. I must say having me chase the bait for so long makes me so annoyed. This interview is really pushing my buttons.
Hey canon how about this: make a camera where small business can take on assignments And deliver less than Hollywood budget movies.

Hey Sony looking gorgeous from here.

Christian Offenberg
Christian Offenberg
Guest
September 11th, 2020

Nice try to explain the heat issue of the R5 or R6 but not good enough. Obviously mistakes were made, or at least some Beta tests with users who bought the first batch. Or why should you adapt recording times with a firmware update shortly after the release of the camera? Why did it take Canon so long to explain the situation? Why did Marketing oversell the camera if Canon knew it can’t work for longer periods? Why isn’t the camera able to detect the real temperature situation after you reset the timer? No, this is just a poor cover up reaction.

Last edited 17 days ago by Christian Offenberg
Neil James Sloan
Neil James Sloan
Member
September 11th, 2020

Would rather an interview to ‘listen to’ rather than read an article on this situation.

Last edited 17 days ago by Neil James Sloan
Doug Laurent
Member
September 11th, 2020

As a Canon fan I once bought 4x 5D2, but later just one 5D3, 5D4, EOS R and R5 because of the limited features. Instead I mainly worked with 4x Sony A7R2/3. I also did order 2x Sony A7S3. Without the overheating limits I would have ordered 4x R5. Canon needs to understand that they don’t sell more products by limiting, they sell much less.

Mat Luck
Mat Luck
Member
September 11th, 2020

When you construct a camera you have to do compromises, but when you offer 8k and raw and expect nobody use it extensively, you are not sensible enough for the business. Why did Canon not build in a fan that starts only if you shooting video. I’m sure you can seal the camera as well for weather too. They didn’t make friends with this decision.

Daniel Wisler Wisler
Daniel Wisler Wisler
Member
September 11th, 2020

If you want to film seriously, you should buy a film camera! Actually everything has been said in this interview and that’s a good thing. If you expect more from a hybrid camera, you are not doing yourself any favours!

Jonathan Clifford Bergqvist
Member
September 11th, 2020

Hybrid cameras, made for both photo and video, have been capable video tools for years. Of course people expect more. Loads of people are making film “seriously” with hybrid cameras and making big bucks.. If you look around at the other big brands out there, hybrid cameras have come a long way. If Canon expect people to have low expectations, they are not doing theirselves any favours. =D

EOSHD
Guest
September 11th, 2020

Agree Jonathan. And whenever I have reported issues with other hybrid cameras the manufacturer has reached out and helped explain the issue, and later update the firmware. With Canon, I along with other users reported the issue and we got ignored. Nobody explained anything and they are still selling us a PR line after all this time. When there was a problem with the Leica SL in LOG, a product manager sat down with me in Berlin and showed me updated firmware. When there was a problem with the Sony FS5 noise reduction, a table of 10 product managers and engineers was waiting at Sony Europe, to demonstrate their fix to me and the firmware came out promptly. With Canon… Crickets and some sneaky firmware update PR stunt via YouTubers.

I will likely never buy another Canon lens or camera again.

Michael
Michael
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  EOSHD

I think it is pretty clear why you’re not considered a serious, professional publisher: It‘s not what you report, it‘s HOW. It‘s your infantile behaviour, lack of manners and use of stupid memes. It’s your agressive language, your bashing, your disrespect for anybody with a variing opinion. If you aren‘t a misanthrope you most defenitely look like one from outside of your bubble.
You make the impression of being sort of a Sean Hannity of camera publishers.

Last edited 17 days ago by Michael
Steve
Steve
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  EOSHD

They really are at a loss :)

If they haven’t addressed complaints earlier or more thoroughly, it’s because so far their bottom line is not affected. They still capture 40% of the market.

For my part, I’ve bought 2 bodies to replace my 5D mkIVs for stills jobs. Just received them.
Updated firmware. Happy so far. Use their video function only for B-roll/gimbal B-cam/casual videos.

For videos, I still have my C200s, will probably update for what comes next or C300mkIII/C500mkII next year.

Unfortunately for people wanting changes or consideration from Canon, captive consumers like me will validate current Canon startegy and they won’t be eager to budge.

End of the day, everyone is free to buy whatever he needs/likes out there, that’s the beauty of it.

Pavel Suprun
Pavel Suprun
Member
September 11th, 2020

Daniel Wisler Wisler
“If you want to film seriously…”
R5 is unreliable, even If you want to film lightly, film your family.
– “Hey, kids, wait for 50 minutes, again, overheated. Hey, where are you all?”

csound
csound
Member
September 11th, 2020

Some can work around the heat issues and for others it’s probably better to go with a different camera. Most camera manufactures hype their products and wise to do a little research prior to spending lots of $ to make sure a particular camera suits your requirements. If it doesn’t, simple, don’t buy it. So many great cameras from different brands to choose from. Difficult to understand all the whining and hysteria.

Last edited 18 days ago by csound
Totofilm Touskiboug
Totofilm Touskiboug
Member
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  csound

Because of the glasses my friend. Selling 6, 7, 8… Canon glasses to buy the same ones in the Sony line mean loosing 2 or 3 thousands of dollars/euros

s saur
s saur
Member
September 11th, 2020

Thanks for asking the right questions! Canon certainly didn’t offer any real explanation, except avoiding low temp burns and that they could have made the cameras work fine, with no overheating issues if they wanted to, they just chose not to. It’s odd that they are waiting for the sales numbers to come in before doing anything real about it, in other words, wait until the next camera version comes out. Canon does know how much everyone loves the a7siii, right? The R6 should do everything that camera does, but no ALL-I and it just overheats, cannot be used on anything professional or client work, just casual filming at the park. Why even buy a camera that you may or may not be able to use?
The R5 could have been the ideal hybrid camera, at 45Mp photos, with 8k short bursts (for photos), and 4k 10bit video, but… you just can’t rely on the camera. Canon once had a brand of dependability, and now? Who knows? I’m extremely disappointed in Canon. Everyone is now questioning every new Canon product.
I was hoping for an updated C100, but now? I just don’t know.

Last edited 18 days ago by s saur
Robert
Robert
Guest
September 11th, 2020

A hardly believe a word of it, Canon acts like an arrogant corporation.
This is not a hybrid camera but an embarrassing marketing/PR disaster. As the camera is not reliable, I can’t use it professionally on events, but 4000+ EUR is way too much for enthusiast chasing around the neighbour’s cat for a portrait.

Game changer…. ridiculous. I hope though, it changes the internal game at Canon’s. It wouldn’t be the first company seriously damaged by the ignorance of its own management.

Thank you John, a nice try :-)

EOSHD
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  Robert

You’re absolutely right Robert. In the initial firmware, the cut offs were almost entirely timer based with no temperature readings. It would refuse to record while reporting 30C internally, but is happy to record while reporting an internal temp of double that around 60C. The workaround shows that Canon do not factor in the 60C internal temperature at the start of a recording at all and to calculate the time they use the previous recording times, which is why changing the date/time clock fools it.

Besides if it is low-temperature burns they’re so afraid of, don’t make a camera that shoots 8K without adequate cooling, and don’t have software running on the camera that ignores a high internal temperature and rolls for another 20 minutes in 8K at 60C without any hacks – just a simple date change and power-cycle is enough to beat the timer.

If 60C is a problem, Canon would read the temperature and refuse to record. They do not. Simple as that. They read a clock instead.

LargeLizard
LargeLizard
Guest
September 11th, 2020

“the EOS R5 and R6 are not dedicated video cameras, they are stills camera hybrids.”

I suppose a ‘stills camera hybrid’ is a camera that shoots stills and can also shoot stills.

Tom
Tom
Guest
September 11th, 2020

Soooo many people are disappointed… In the freezer overheating, really??? How many more videos have to be published???? WE USERS ARE NOT STUPID.

canon5dsquared
canon5dsquared
Member
14 days ago
Reply to  Tom

So, in your mind, a fire won’t burn if it’s below 40F degrees outside? Maybe my pit defies the laws of physics.

Tirmite
Tirmite
Guest
September 11th, 2020

Sadly, these two cameras melted the ice caps and killed most of the world’s population before Canon came clean with the truth.
But they then introduced an underwater hybrid that could record for 2 hrs with that fantastic “color science” they’re known for.

Paul LaNoue
Paul LaNoue
Member
September 11th, 2020

The R5 and R6 are photography cameras. Hybrid means photography camera with some video functionality. Let’s get real! For one thousand dollars you can buy a hybrid that shoots 1080p for you tube. You tube for most viewers is seen at about 480. All the hyperbole is ridiculous. Anyone the understands that hybrids have sealed bodies should know that shooting on large MP sensors at high bit rates has to be limited. That don’t have vents or fans like real cinema cameras. Anyone that doesn’t like their R5 can’t sell on line in five minutes. Photographers love them.

Jodash Mat
Jodash Mat
Member
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  Paul LaNoue

This brings another point.
Why don’t Canon, Nikon produce high end stills only camera. It will be more affordable.
There are plenty stills only photographers.
Why must we pay for tech we never going to use?

Last edited 17 days ago by Jodash Mat
Joseph Moore
Joseph Moore
Member
September 11th, 2020

“Algorithms” and “low temperature burns”? When one can run the camera in a freezer and it still “overheats”, well, in a word: bollocks.

Daniel Wisler Wisler
Daniel Wisler Wisler
Member
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  Joseph Moore

You do not seem to know much about electronics. In a closed housing, electronic components can very well overheat, even in a freezer. It lasts too long to cool down just by the housing.

Vinicius Zucareli
Vinicius Zucareli
Member
September 11th, 2020

Unfortunately very little actual insight.

Also, no question about the 30min limit in all modes.

No question about a high temperature mode for tripods like Sony does.

EOSHD
Guest
September 11th, 2020

As far as I know the EU tax law about 30 mins classification as ‘camcorder’ with higher duties was abolished a while ago.

So yes you are absolutely right to ask about 30 min limits, even in modes Canon themselves admit are ‘not limited by heat’.

Cartman
Cartman
Guest
September 11th, 2020

Possible translation: “Longer recording times that may undercut sales of our more expensive cinema line must not be allowed with a simple firmware update.”

EOSHD
Guest
September 11th, 2020

It is interesting that the Canon PR manager knows about the hacks. However he’s a bit behind. There is no need to pull the battery during a recording or to use any hardware modifications or hacks.

You simply stop recording, change the date and pull the battery out in a normal way.

In my tests I am up to 1 hour of 8K without any ‘low temperature burns’. (https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-eos-r5-8k-stress-test-1-no-problem-with-timer-reset-so-far/)

Some users have run for 1 hour 40 minutes before ending the test without issues. The measured camera temperature in the EXIF data in that test peaked between 60-63C and stayed there for 1 hour. Well within the comfortable range for a modern CPU.

Last edited 17 days ago by Johnnie Behiri
Richard Cox
Richard Cox
Member
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  EOSHD

You are a moron, and can’t even read.

They are concerned about low temperature burns.

visionrouge.net
visionrouge.net
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  Richard Cox

Sure, low temperature burns that happen only if you are recording internally,
because the camera getting impossible to touch when using external reorder, bu this is fine with Canon heat management.
Very funny

Daniel Wisler Wisler
Daniel Wisler Wisler
Member
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  EOSHD

Weit and see…

Banned from EOSHD
Banned from EOSHD
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  EOSHD

Allow me to remind you that one of your forum members measured an internal temperature of 75ºC after using your “hack”.

Maybe it’s time now to admit things are not so clearly black and white but a little more nuanced than what you concluded in those articles over the past two months. A fact that is also mirrored in a degraded amount of aggressive outrage on your forum. It got kind of silent after those insights given by Lensrentals.

Remember how you mocked the Canon engineers? And what about your claim to sue Canon? Still holding on to that?

A beautiful quote by Mr. Cicala in this context:
“Do you know what I do when I’m wrong? I say, ‘It looks like I was wrong about that.’ Some of you all should try that. You’ll be surprised to find it’s not painful.”

Last edited 18 days ago by Banned from EOSHD
Banned from EOSHD
Banned from EOSHD
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  Johnnie Behiri

Hello Mr. Behiri

You’re right. I toned down my comment a bit now for that purpose.

EOSHD
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  Johnnie Behiri

Get called a moron by your reader, but yes of course the ‘negative spirit’ is all on my forum isn’t it?

Francisco Barros
Francisco Barros
Member
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  EOSHD

Yes, yes it is.

Pierre Fromage
Pierre Fromage
Member
September 12th, 2020
Reply to  EOSHD

No, it follows you around, because you reap what you sow.

Jared Palick
Jared Palick
Member
September 11th, 2020

I think the sad reality is that the damage is already done; whether they fix the overheating or not. Dozens of the biggest youtubers and vloggers online have already posted reaction videos that complained about the overheating when it first came out. I sense that many will avoid this camera even if Canon solves the problem. Katsuyuki seemed pretty defiant in his answers and unapologetic; blaming the overheating on “fundamentals of the whole topic” and refusing to offer an apology to the users who are willing to take a chance on the camera. An unfortunate public relations nightmare caused by releasing the camera too soon? Canon should just come out and say “We’re sorry and we’ll fix it.”

Last edited 18 days ago by Jared Palick
David
David
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  Jared Palick

Given that there is a vast shortage of available R5 with pre-orders still not filled, it is hard to predict the “damage” you are referring to. youtubers and vlogging care more about clicks and outrage rather than considered reviews. Canon will be doing all they can to get new stock out.

You can’t have everything in one body this size and weather sealed. There are valid ways to extend recording times up to 4k60 by having no cards in and externally recording. I can’t verify this in my R5 as I don’t have an external recorder. The HDMI port can’t handle 8K raw but Canon promised lower bitrate 8K raw in another firmware iteration (hopefully compressed/cinema raw light) so hopefully 8k raw can be externally recorded with new firmware for those that desperately need hours of it. Externally recording is the most cost efficient way to store it in any case and the CFe card/slot is a serious heat generator

The camera works as specified. It is class leading but people are still screaming for more at an unprecedentedly low price. New firmware is tweaking what it can do. No “fixing” to be done. Canon’s marketing may have been exuberant but accurate. Buy another 8k unlimited camera if you need it and can afford it.

Check out Roger Cicala’s 2 teardowns on the R5 for some unbiased information at lensrentals

G V
Guest
September 11th, 2020

The wave of inquiries crashed into the unmovable rock of PR speak.
No significant insights here, unfortunately :(
Nice try, though.

Greg Greenhaw
Greg Greenhaw
Guest
September 10th, 2020

A little too nice Johnnie I appreciate that you tried. However there is enough evidence now that the camera is not overheating at all.

John
John
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  Greg Greenhaw

I have to agree, a little too nice. It would have been better to simply ask the bald question as to why the timer alone was controlling recovery time, irrespective of cooling in say a freezer, in version 1.0.

EOSHD
Guest
September 11th, 2020
Reply to  John

Good question John.

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